Watch this. (Click on the video on the left hand side of the page.)
Let me know what you think.
7 comments:
Anonymous
said...
how far do you want to take this trajectory of scripture? and my second question is do you believe in the omniscience of the God? and my last point, be very careful when listening to preachers framing their sermons and scripture points with the words "i think". ponder. judy
I do believe in the omniscience of God. Absolutely. Thought this would be an interesting discussion springboard. I agree with you re: preachers framing things with said words. I am very interested in the Church's viewpoints when it comes to women, especially since I believe firmly that Jesus would've been labeled a feminist, had the label existed in that time. Women have always been important to God. Period.
The main point I believe was missed in this sermon was not that women could speak the gospel or teach the gospel, but it was that women should not lead men or teach the gospel to men. I don't think Jesus, or Paul for that matter, didn't think the gospel was afforded to women. Or that women would not be included in the great commission. I think that in organized teaching and worship it was not left to women to be in leadership. Women can teach other women or children. The Catholic church is a leader in teaching in Christian education. I don't think Adam Hamilton thinks too much of the Catholic Church. Wow, he sure took the cheap shots at the horrible acts committed by some Catholic priests. He must have had to do a lot of internet research for that info. My opinion, and here's where it's going to get messy, is that mainstream religions that have embraced women in leadership, have weakened the men in those same denominations. The male leaders have to deal, for the most part, with women in lay leadership. This requires a skill set that is different from dealing with men in lay leadership. The guy in the video mention that the difference between men and women was anatomy. Well, I beg to differ. I do not think the only difference between men and women is anatomy. If that is the case, men or women with physical deformities or burns or disease to their genitalia will lose their sexual identity. Gender is in the brain as well as the physicality. Gee, the transgendered use this premise as their whole identity. That being said, churches that prohibit women from leadership do not prohibit them from serving, teaching, worshiping, etc. The trajectory of scripture is a slippery slope. This is the same rational used by homosexuals. Who are they kidding, there were sexual deviants in biblical days and Paul said it was a sin. Just because they don't want it to be a sin anymore doesn't make it so. Why, as a woman, do we need to be in the pulpit? Why is that more of a service to God than teaching other women. I've been in bible studies that have only woman in them that numbered more than 300 every week. A woman, a learned, intelligent, spirit filled woman gave a sermon, an expository sermon, that taught and admonished each woman in the room. So, because she was teaching only women, she is considered "less than" or she should covet a position in leadership over men? I don't think so. And, on a personal note that possibly you and I will be the only ones that get, I don't want to see my male or female pastor crying in the pulpit. I don't mind crying, I cry, but I do it in private and not on demand or for effect.
Being a submissive woman is not a matter of being weak, it takes strength and strength of character.
Probably not what you were looking for, but there it is. judy
What about a woman who is teaching her husband about God? What if a man asks a woman a direct question? What if she is speaking but not ordained as a minister? Is there a difference?
My question back to you is why would a wife be teaching her husband about God? Why would a Godly woman marry a man that doesn't share her beliefs? If she came to be a believer after marriage, why wouldn't she bring her husband to the people/place where she came to the Lord? If a woman was asked a question she can answer. I never said women were incapable of speaking the Gospel, I said they were not to be leaders in the church and teach men. (ie, I am capable of murder, I'm just not supposed to do it.) I don't really understand your last question, but I do understand your desire. It is difficult to be submissive. It is difficult to be capable of speaking well about Jesus Christ and not have a forum to do so. Jesus told us we would have trouble in this world. I understand the struggle of feminists to not "take charge" when they feel or are capable. A Godly man in leadership will bring out the best in the woman in their charge, not squash them. It takes trust in God to allow this to happen. Like I said, it takes strength of character to be submissive. Judy
To get back to the point that is being made in this talk. It would not be appropriate for a woman to be a lay speaker in the case of denominations that follow the teachings of Paul in not allowing women to be leaders in the church. She wouldn't be "doing the sermon" or anything like that. She wouldn't be reading scripture out of the Bible. Why would a man ask her a question about scripture if there are other men around to ask. I think you are not used to being in situations when men participate in leading sunday worship, exclusively. In these situations God will raise up Godly men to do his work. If women take on or take over this work, the men will be more reluctant to step forward. Just my perspective on this. Judy
7 comments:
how far do you want to take this trajectory of scripture? and my second question is do you believe in the omniscience of the God? and my last point, be very careful when listening to preachers framing their sermons and scripture points with the words "i think". ponder. judy
I do believe in the omniscience of God. Absolutely. Thought this would be an interesting discussion springboard. I agree with you re: preachers framing things with said words. I am very interested in the Church's viewpoints when it comes to women, especially since I believe firmly that Jesus would've been labeled a feminist, had the label existed in that time. Women have always been important to God. Period.
The main point I believe was missed in this sermon was not that women could speak the gospel or teach the gospel, but it was that women should not lead men or teach the gospel to men. I don't think Jesus, or Paul for that matter, didn't think the gospel was afforded to women. Or that women would not be included in the great commission. I think that in organized teaching and worship it was not left to women to be in leadership. Women can teach other women or children. The Catholic church is a leader in teaching in Christian education. I don't think Adam Hamilton thinks too much of the Catholic Church. Wow, he sure took the cheap shots at the horrible acts committed by some Catholic priests. He must have had to do a lot of internet research for that info. My opinion, and here's where it's going to get messy, is that mainstream religions that have embraced women in leadership, have weakened the men in those same denominations. The male leaders have to deal, for the most part, with women in lay leadership. This requires a skill set that is different from dealing with men in lay leadership. The guy in the video mention that the difference between men and women was anatomy. Well, I beg to differ. I do not think the only difference between men and women is anatomy. If that is the case, men or women with physical deformities or burns or disease to their genitalia will lose their sexual identity. Gender is in the brain as well as the physicality. Gee, the transgendered use this premise as their whole identity. That being said, churches that prohibit women from leadership do not prohibit them from serving, teaching, worshiping, etc. The trajectory of scripture is a slippery slope. This is the same rational used by homosexuals. Who are they kidding, there were sexual deviants in biblical days and Paul said it was a sin. Just because they don't want it to be a sin anymore doesn't make it so. Why, as a woman, do we need to be in the pulpit? Why is that more of a service to God than teaching other women. I've been in bible studies that have only woman in them that numbered more than 300 every week. A woman, a learned, intelligent, spirit filled woman gave a sermon, an expository sermon, that taught and admonished each woman in the room. So, because she was teaching only women, she is considered "less than" or she should covet a position in leadership over men? I don't think so. And, on a personal note that possibly you and I will be the only ones that get, I don't want to see my male or female pastor crying in the pulpit. I don't mind crying, I cry, but I do it in private and not on demand or for effect.
Being a submissive woman is not a matter of being weak, it takes strength and strength of character.
Probably not what you were looking for, but there it is. judy
What about a woman who is teaching her husband about God? What if a man asks a woman a direct question? What if she is speaking but not ordained as a minister? Is there a difference?
My question back to you is why would a wife be teaching her husband about God? Why would a Godly woman marry a man that doesn't share her beliefs? If she came to be a believer after marriage, why wouldn't she bring her husband to the people/place where she came to the Lord? If a woman was asked a question she can answer. I never said women were incapable of speaking the Gospel, I said they were not to be leaders in the church and teach men. (ie, I am capable of murder, I'm just not supposed to do it.) I don't really understand your last question, but I do understand your desire. It is difficult to be submissive. It is difficult to be capable of speaking well about Jesus Christ and not have a forum to do so. Jesus told us we would have trouble in this world. I understand the struggle of feminists to not "take charge" when they feel or are capable. A
Godly man in leadership will bring out the best in the woman in their charge, not squash them. It takes trust in God to allow this to happen. Like I said, it takes strength of character to be submissive. Judy
My second question referred to a woman who speaks at church - does the sermon - but is not the minister - a lay speaker, for example.
To get back to the point that is being made in this talk. It would not be appropriate for a woman to be a lay speaker in the case of denominations that follow the teachings of Paul in not allowing women to be leaders in the church. She wouldn't be "doing the sermon" or anything like that. She wouldn't be reading scripture out of the Bible. Why would a man ask her a question about scripture if there are other men around to ask. I think you are not used to being in situations when men participate in leading sunday worship, exclusively. In these situations God will raise up Godly men to do his work. If women take on or take over this work, the men will be more reluctant to step forward. Just my perspective on this. Judy
Post a Comment